Caro Meets Theatre Interview

William Lyons: Socrates And His Clouds

By | Published on Friday 14 June 2013

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Philosophy-inspired play ‘Socrates And His Clouds’ is being staged by Meddlers Theatre Company at the Jermyn Street Theatre this month, and you’ve only got until the end of next week to catch it, so get your skates on. And while you’re doing that, have a read of our fascinating Q&A with the playwright, philosophy professor William Lyons.

CM: The play is loosely based on Aristophanes’ ‘Clouds’ – how loosely?
WL: This play is distantly related to Aristophanes ‘Clouds’. The main characters are borrowed from that play, as also is a little of the structure, but the text itself is completely new.

Centrally, for Aristophanes’ caricature of Socrates as a sophistic buffoon, there is substituted something more like the wise, ironic Socrates of Plato’s dialogues. There is also a singing-and-dancing “Greek chorus” that appear at various points in the play to comment, forewarn or admonish. But unlike the classical Greek Chorus, in this play the Chorus is also a protagonist that interacts with other characters, in particular it continually stalks and teases Strepsiades as well as provokes his ne’er-do-well son, Phidippides.

CM: Can you outline what the play is about?
WL: At the surface level, the play is about a father trying to get himself out of the debts that his son has incurred through his habits of gambling on horses, carousing in the pub and, as he discovers near the end of the play, actually buying a very expensive thoroughbred racehorse that never seems to win any races. The father sees education as the way out of his problems, specifically by getting his son an education by attending Socrates’ Academy (as Socrates does not charge fees). He hopes that by doing so, his son will get a well-paid job as a professional of some sort, perhaps as a vet or a banker.

But things do not go smoothly, and his son becomes more of a problem rather than less of one In fact he becomes a yobbo (or candidate for an ASBO) and first threatens a horse dealer who comes to collect on a debt and then beats up his father. This in turn leads his father to set about burning Socrates’ Academy to the ground as he blames Socrates for turning his lazy son into a real thug. Strepsiades sees the rather liberal philosophical education at the Academy as the cause of his son becoming a thug. For Socrates, it turns out, does not train his students to “be something”, such as a vet or banker, but to become someone who can “think for themselves”. He “unteaches” his students and gives them uncensored freedom in their studies. Strepsiades sees this as Socrates failing to give guidance.

So, generally speaking, the play is about the hazards of education, the fragility of morality, the tyranny of economics and the ever fraught father-son relationship.

CM: What inspired you to write it?
WL: A number of things. I have been a student, and at times also a teacher, of philosophy almost all of my life. But I discovered that in the English-speaking world, philosophy had become so embedded in technical jargon that only the academic professionals themselves could understand it, and sometimes not even them. So I looked for a way to make philosophy not merely more accessible to the “ordinary person” but also more enjoyable for them to engage in. Drama seemed a good vehicle to do this. In particular I was drawn to the tradition of classical Greek drama, not least because I admire it so much. After all, classical Greece began the whole business of drama and, at roughly the same time, also began the whole business of philosophy in the west.

I have always admired Socrates, who literally brought philosophy into the market place, so that how a particular person should lead his or her life, become responsible for his or her own life, became a topic of serious discussion, arguably for the first time. Thus Socrates began the long history of moral and political philosophy. He was also at various times a soldier (as there was something like conscription for Athenian citizens during war time, which was sadly very frequent in 5th C Athens) and a notably brave one. But it was his for moral courage that he will be most remembered and admired. He refused to compromise on what questions he believed should be put, out loud, to the citizens of Athens, including to the high and mighty, whether they liked it or not. In the end he was condemned to death for this refusal to compromise.

CM: ‘The Clouds’ is obviously a very old play, but apparently, you’ve managed to give the themes a modern and topical twist. How did you go about it?
WL: If the themes are perennial, then they can occur in both an ancient and a modern idiom. The themes of what makes a good teacher, a good student, and a good education are always relevant, not least in these times. The same is true of questions about how a person should live his or her life (ethics) and how a society should be organized (politics). That these themes are universal is underlined in the play by the characters referring to ancient Greek places and events while wearing modern dress and using everyday contemporary implements such as cups, bottles, brushes and chairs, as well as engaging in the sorts of things that you and I still do – eating, sleeping, going to the pub, arguing, worrying about debts, being anxious about a son’s being unemployed, and so on. At times there are also some, I hope not too obvious, ad libs or asides to prompt the audience into seeing the relevance of the themes and discussions to our contemporary world.

CM: As playwright, have you worked closely with the creative team producing the show, or have you taken a back seat?
WL: I have been constantly called upon, particularly by our very intelligent and very skilled director, Melina Theocharidou, to interpret a reference in the text or to explain the purpose of a whole scene or to consider axing a passage that was proving unwieldy, and so on. I soon realised that Melina was a night owl as I found myself continually answering such queries into the wee hours after midnight. But I also had discussions by telephone or, most often by email, about costumes, props, music, programmes, posters, fund-raising, press coverage, et alii. I was never allowed to remain hidden or silent in the background. And I did not mind this at all.

CM: You’re a professor of philosophy, and your interest in this has clearly informed the stage shows you have written. Do you have plans to write further philosophy-inspired plays?
WL: I have already written a play about the 20thC philosopher Wittgenstein, entitled ‘Wittgenstein – The Crooked Roads’. It won the Start Chapbooks Play Competition in Ireland in 2005 and was produced and performed by Nick Blackburn and his team over three weeks at Riverside Studios in London in 2011. I’ve also written a play about the philosophers Heidegger and Arendt, entitled “The Fir Tree and the Ivy”. It won the Eamon Keane Full-length Play award in Ireland in 2006 but has yet to be produced. I am also working on a play about truth, the problems in telling it and in being on the receiving end of it. It will be called ‘The Oracle at Delphi’ and is, I suppose, as it also involves reference to a famous aspect of life in ancient Greece, a sort of companion piece to ‘Socrates and his Clouds’.

CM: Why were you attracted to philosophy, and why do you think it’s important to keep studying it?
WL: I once heard a member of the audience put this question to a famous contemporary American philosopher, Hilary Putnam, when he was addressing a public meeting at the Royal Irish Academy. He thought for a moment and then said, “Because it is education for grown-ups”. Will that do?

CM: Are there any plans for the show after its run at Jermyn Street?
WL: I think that our esteemed and much loved director-producer, Melina Theocharidou, is more likely to know the answer to that than I. She is very businesslike, I am hopelessly otherwise.

CM: Who is your favourite philosopher?
WL: Ah, at present it is a close run thing between Socrates and Wittgenstein. A dead heat.

‘Socrates And His Clouds’ is on at Jermyn Street Theatre until 22 Jun. This is where you go to book tickets

LINKS: www.jermynstreettheatre.co.uk | www.socratesandhisclouds.com | twitter.com/Socrates_Clouds



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